I have naxos in my lhasas and they have done their job for me.

Thanks Sanna,

Do they still manufacture these bindings? I had NX21 couple years ago.
I think they are almost as heavy as Dukes, but Dukes are beefier.

I have also the NX21, but I think that the manufacturing ended this year. Their manufacturer gives Naxos a weight of 2,25 kg and Dukes 2,6 kg (please correct me if I'm wrong). I think both those bindings have good and bad properties, but as I am not so heavy, Naxos have been good for me. And I think they are nice to tour with and one can easily adjust the heel lift while standing.

I think that there is even a beefier NX22 now, no? I have used Naxos and Dukes and Naxos tour a bit better due to the double pivot and the easy (and higher) heel riser and Dukes are beefier but are a bit heavier for touring.

i have the old naxos (pre nx21), they tour really well as nijaman said and they are light as sanna mentionned. Not sure how it compares with other similar types weight wise etc.... Always heard ppl with Dukes saying they were heavy. Prolly not needed unless you need the DIN 16. Sure any of the others should be fine.

All that being said nothing tours like dynafits. I would only go with the Naxos if I didn't have the boots or if they were a lot cheaper...

Jep there is also Naxo NX22. Quickly checked out, in Europe those NX21 and NX22 cost about the same, 199 euros as DF Vertical FT12 costs 349 euros.

What a about DF Vertical FT with 12 DIN, anybody??
They are light, about 1 kilo per pair including brakes!

Dukes
- beefy
- u really can charge with them
- works anywhere
- works with wide skis
- heavy
- high stand height 34 mm
- crap heel rise bar

Dynafiddle
- light
- low stand height
- good skinning ability
- what about skiing icy tracks
- no jumping (but I don't jump)

Opinions, opinions

I don't want to buy Naxos anymore, sorry!

I have FT12s on my Lhasas.

I've toured on both NX01s and NX21s and would never go back to that style of binding. Never tried Dukes. If you mostly do backcountry and side country and not much in resort than I don't see the need for the extra beef of the Duke unless you are a really heavy person to begin with or regularly take nasty hits (and you said you didn't). I do jump but nothing huge and usually into soft snow.

Other advantages of Dynafit, it's easy to carry spare parts or a spare binding with little weight penalty, you can take them apart and put 'em back together yourself without too much effort, they've been around forever, customer service from Salewa North America is stellar (but don't know about J-land or elsewhere).

As for icy tracks? Well, I clocked myself at 85 kph (53 mph) at Revelstoke on an icy/groomer day last year with that setup, don't think that's an issue. For reference, my weight ranges between 80-85kg (175-185 lbs) and I'm 180cm tall.

(This is not the smartest thing to do given that the release range of Dynafits is not as wide as a dedicated downhill binding, but plenty of people have DINs set to joint busting levels anyway.)

Never tried the DFs but they seem to have a lot ppl who like them, seems weight is the major factor.
Just curious SM, what did you dislike in the Naxos compared to the DFs, would be very interesting to hear since you have used both?

The dynafit really is a great setup. Last season I had some problems with icing up (you can check the exaustive information on this issue at TGR), but really it is just a matter of figuring out what is likely to be going wrong, which you do very soon, and is easy to fix. Actually I had more of a problem with the boot side of the setup - obviously your options are more limited than with a conventional DIN sole, but increasing constantly. It may also have been because it was my first compromise AT boot (ie not 100% geared for downhill performance). LM, far more experienced than me, has the same boot/binding (FT12/Scarpa Spirit 3s) and exhibited zero problems using it as his everyday ride.

I have dukes on my Lhasas, and absolutely love them for their click'n'go ease of use. I haven't taken them on super-long skins (2hrs max maybe?) and my longest bootpack with them was Fuji (which is long), where I found them to be heavy but not prohibitive. I enjoy skiing the dukes more, but this is as likely as not due to me using my alpine boots with them, and them being mounted on a more fun ski (dynafits are on gotamas, which I love, but a touch short for me at 176cm volkl length).

It isn't just weight that makes the DF a better touring binding, it is the fact that there is almost no slop in the heel when you tour. They are sooooo much better on the side hill etc. As for jumping, on the my second DF tour last year we dropped the cornice into Shirouma and the skiis stayed on, which was good given it was a 60 degree ride to never never land if they hadn't.

The other thing to think about, however, is durability. Dukes can withstand being thrown about in the back of cats, sleds, helibaskets, trucks etc in a way that I would not trust the other touring bindings to do. It makes a ski with dukes far more versitile than a ski with Naxos, freerides or DFs.

Duke think 70 / 30 onpiste to off piste.
dynafits or G3s 30 to 70 onpiste to off piste.

If the ratio starts to hit 60 to 40 then you have to really ask yourself what you want out of the binding.
As for boots the new touring boots coming out these days are pretty good. I went with the black diamond method for dynafit compatibility and because they are more of a ski boot than a touring boot. Still really light
compared to my present ski boots. On traverses also remember that your canting plays a big factor. The typical touring boot has much less canting. Thus the edge pressure and impact wont be as good. Also many times this is a skin problem. I prefer a wide skin and on an hard switch back I pay the price.

KoM, I think you mean spirit 4s, which is also what I'm on. I have two setups both with Dynafits, 186 Lhasas for shorter tours and resort, and 188s with vertical STs for longer tours/multiday.

The main differences in performance with the Dynafit apart from weight is how solid they are both up and down, miles better than the Naxos. There is no slop at all. Plus you aren't lifting the heel piece and bar with every step. I also prefer the stride and pulling/manoeuvring the ski from the toe rather than in front of the toe.

thanks SM. I like how the Naxos tour & how they ride as well but never tried the DF set-up so can't compare, so good to hear from somebody who has tried both.
I will be on Naxos & non-DF boots for the foreseable future. Who knows a few years down the road...

Thanks for all replies. Many good opinions

I forget to tell some things of my self

I weight about 80 kg with out ski pack and my new Osprey Kode30 wights about 6,5 kg including all things what I need.
So total weight with out clothes is about 86-877 kg

I ski with BD Factor boots and I think my skiing is 30/70 onpiste to offpiste, so maybe choose Dynafiddles

Has anyone tried to retrofit DF inserts to older touring boots ?

I know this has been done, I think I saw some pics at the wild snow website.

The thing is that I have a lot of life left in My Garmont Adrenalines but they are not DF compatible, as in lack the inserts.

I was sort of thinking to upgrade my touring kit from the old combinaton of Atomic R.ex + Diamir Freeride combo to something with moderate rocker and waist width less than my ARGs
K2 Kung Fujas, Salomon Shogun, Völkl Gotama 09/10 or Lhasa Pows might fit the bill pretty well.
As I don't jump practically at all DF bindings seem pretty sensible improvement over the freerides - the problem is that I don't want to buy a third pair of boots to get the DF interface.

stick with the freerides and change when you want new boots. Way too pricy to change just for a change

You're right SM, 4s not 3s. Why do they put those keys so close together...

So I have made my decision, tomorrow installing Dynafiddles DLT Vertical FT12 on to my Lhasa Pow. Still have backup, my BRO 179 with alpine bindings

The slow slide into spandex and rando racing begins!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you try 'em out.

Dynafit. Good choice.

As for the Osprey Kode pack - good luck. I returned mine after using it twice. Both hikes involved total of about 12 hours carrying the skis in A-frame. End results was cuts in the low quality side panel fabric from my ski edges - one cut for each edge, each cut 1cm long with smaller ones nearby. That pack simply is not designed to last. My edges are more burred at this time of year so that probably didn't help, but if the pack cant handle that then it little more than a resort pack, or a mid-winter weekend warrior pack at best.

Sad to hear that you have had problems with your Kode pack.
After reading your post, I immediately check mine and ah i'm lucky, there wasn't no scratches or cuts.
But I have carried my skis only two times and both time maybe 40 min.

So let's see in a future what happens.

Do you have this year model?

PS. Bah! After 3rd ski trip, there are many scratches and cuts. So OSPREY packs are not made for carrying skies.

Yes, I have this years model, at least I did.

I have never actually liked Osprey packs.
I really like the value I get out of Vaude.
One of the only brands to not mark up their products.
In 4 seasons of use my pack is still going strong with
no major damage.

I would like a black F-stop pack but the wife will kill me
if I buy something else!

Vaude = good stuff, ze germans have just about everything from cars to beer pretty much dialed.

Vaude make great winter mountaineering packs: tough and simple and good value. Pity that dont have just a litle more to bridge the gap to ski touring: like some pockets for avalanche gear. Perhaps they have it and I have not yet seen it.

Looking at the website shows that Vaude has quite the range.
They dont bring everything over. For my day tours the 35 plus
5 litre is enough. Still that size just doesnt have enough little
pockets for everything.

I think Rappie has more packs than I have ever seen at the moment!

An other german brand - Jack Wolfskin has served me well.

I've had their Alpine Pack aprox. forever and it still does just fine.
I've replaced some buckles but that's all.
A good pocket for crampons etc.
OK it's a bit on the heavy side and mine is so old that the skiloops are too narrow these days (+ no provision for camelback)
But these matters have been taken care of on the more recent revisions.

Jack Wolfskin
I had one prior to my Vaude, I loved that pack.
Lasted 5 or 6 seasons before the back support fell apart.
The wife got it in Vietnam so we thought it was dodgy.
Well it wasn’t. It turned out to be a true "it fell off the
truck bag". I could enter from the top or the bottom of
The pack and could keep the bottom section a separate compartment
or unzip it to stuff the bag. It was a great bag for trekkers and skins.

I like my Deuter Eric Hjowhatever pro model. Part of what I like about it, I guess is that it doesn't have surplus straps and loops to accomodate snowboard carry being a skier's pro-model. I have always disliked that gap in the Dakine bags for snowboarder cross-carry. It only collects snow and has no utility for a skier. In fact, until Boarding fool hiked up Asahidake this weekend with his board in x-carry, I have never seen a boarder use it either.

Horizontal carry is for sleds and sleds only. Hiking that way is hassle anywhere near trees or rocks and in general it just wobbles around. I've got 9 packs in my client stash, three brands or so... and not one has horizontal carry. On the other hand, snowboard straps for vertical carry are useful even if you ski or climb.

THere are vertical staps on the Deuter ski bag but they look a bit narrow for a snowboard. Useful and not too long and dangly when I am not using them.

Deuter Virus was The pack to have about zillion years ago - naturally I couldn't afford one

I see no point in X-carry - very high winds excluded - and possibly sledge action on open terrain.

Teppo wrote:

Deuter Virus was The pack to have about zillion years ago - naturally I couldn't afford one

I see no point in X-carry - very high winds excluded - and possibly sledge action on open terrain.

X-carry is useful if you have a lot of shit bolted to the outside of your pack. If you are carrying a sleeping pad externally and some ice axes it is maybe the only way. It's a useful option.

Reminds me of this Hohes post on TGR You're doing it wrong: in Japan

I remember that photo.
Sometimes we forget how much money it really costs to buy all the proper gear.

I used to ski alot of mini golf back in the long ski days.
We would go out with shitty snow shoes and make a good track up after a run.
Let that track set in over night then go back the next day and just boot pack.
So easy to just throw the skis over your shoulder and head back up.
Maybe 200 to 300 vertical max at best, but some of the best days. With lots of
light we would stay out untill almost dark before coming down for a beer at the
bar.

cruel photographer, cruel comments. I like it.
The skier somehow looks familiar...

looks like HH's skis

you are correct. I was there that day as well, just about 100m out of shot as I was riding easy on skins. And just generally awesome of course. Wearing my Roxy hat.

I always laugh at the Japanese that go all out at the outdoor store.
Their first hike and they buy 250000 yen worth of gear.

When the shimano clickers came out on msr everyone had then and the board bindings.
Sometimes its better to suffer the first few times to learn what you need.
As long as you arent at or putting people at risk.

Skied 3 days with my new combination of Lhasa's+DF Vertical FT12 and I love it.
So good snow contact because the rise is so minimal and boy the combination feels light and robust.

Tried in Swiss on black pistes too and no releases, even it was sometimes quite hard pack. I'm impressed.

Not skinning with them yet, but more tests when I arrive to Hakuba.

I finally got around to get the more or less tourable (and floatable) kit.
(As in better than whatever big skis + my "tuned" securafixes.)

My choix des petit armees was Salomon Shogun 182 + secondhand Dukes from a mate.

I sort of a reasoned it out that I'll keep the Diamir freerides on the 184cm Atomix R.ex pair for skimountaineering and all out miserystick springtime "firn" snow touring in north Norway. They're quite light combo with the Garmont boots.

While the Dukes are far from light they should handle little 180s and occasional switch riding with ease - and no fear of the "instant telemark" as with the first gen. grey diamir freeride.

EDIT: The Shoguns turned out to be way more agile and hard biting on the hardpack that I had hoped for. The hill was small but I have a good feeling of these for the days that ARGs won't do.
191 length would have been interesting - they feel to ski quite short.