oh come on, maybe it will cut down on the australian population around these parts! maybe not such a bad thing?

You are damn right, but it happens everywhere, not only in Hakuba.
Maybe it decrease stupid peoples population?

I have been responsible for this a couple of times this year and I actually felt a bit bad about it as well. I almost always go up with a pack to that side but a couple times when arriving late (and things are pretty schralped if you don't get there in time) I rushed out without the pack. It is not an excuse but the lift practices have changed since they opend the front and back. They are now closing the top access lift when they see avi danger as too high, which I never saw them do when they closed thed trees. Still, it is good protocal to carry the gear and we all have it and it isn't that heavy. That said, I am with you in hoping they close that side again though as things were better when it was closed.

Skiing does have inherent risk and it is inevetible that there will be accidents, packs or no. Indeed, back in those trees if you were to get caught in a slide burial would only be half the worry anyway. Eventually there will be rescue workers back there pulling out a body, just like there has been in every ski resort in the world.

W. Thorpe in Bale's Sel. Wks. (Parker Soc.) 109, : I say to thee, that in the turning about of thy hand such a sinner may be verily repented.

The Shit show that was the Happo BC SC or whatever you want to call it was a joke.
I had groups skiing over top of us. Jumping on the same line as us.
Traversing under us all at one time. Riding 3 to 4 people at a time.
How to you protect yourself from such fools?

Wait for them at the river crossing with a shotgun?

Unf for you guys riding the Happo SC, it is only going to get worse until:

a) there is an accident that spooks everybody (for a little while)
b) there are so many people there that it is not worth riding anymore unless you enjoy moguls

Either way, you should not be surprised at the way things are progressing.

b) is what happened at Kagura

sounds like you bit yourself in the ass. all those try hard years of marketing hakuba's 'big lines' has caught up, oh the irony. I guess there is more to fillings beds and 'saving the valley' after all... I kid haha- it's funny cause its true.

and yes I (the awkwardly called out person on this forum) ride Cortina with out a pack sometimes. Now that you know please feel free to lecture me in person. I welcome your enthusiasm.

also it should be noted workinfortuns that the original poster is.... Australian

I've done loads of stupid things. I have to get my shit together.

.....Hey, if you really want to get the message out you should post this on SnowJapan coz the readers over there are probably a lot less educated than people on this forum. Plus there is probably a bigger, though less dedicated audience. That's "snowjapan.com". I assume you've heard of them

I guess that is why I get ignored these days then cause I tell everyone.
Im not the only one trying make a sustainable life out of this town.

I used to ride Cortina with just a beacon a fistful of times. Bad form? yes, and my partners gave me shit for it and they should have. But I will say if your riding alone, not putting anyone else at risk and willing to accept the consequenses, ride naked for all I care.

I too am all for the decrease in stupid people, especially Australians.

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. - Darwin

haha. easier said than done my friend. most people here have lost their posting "privilege".

Reality check.

Avalanche today in the cleared area skiers left of the Sakka Trees. Size 2 - enough to bury and kill a person. 100cm crown wall. I was not there, nor were any Hakuba residents. It was triggered by foreign visitors when someone jumped off a small terrain feature. I have photos, it ran wide and far. The debris pile is over 200cm deep.

I have seen members of this forum and other foreigners riding in that area without a backpack.

You'd be dead if it was today.

Who here has not seen the movie “The Fine Line”? http://www.rockymountainsherpas.com/

dear backpack police, please post some pictures so we(I) know where your talking about.

You know exactly where I mean so I guess you asked for the pic because you don't beleive me. The cleared area skiers left of the Sakka trees with the summer road that switches back through it. I'm told the slide went over two cat tracks, not stopping at the first one.

This is just part of the crown wall.

ok?

Sakka is big area with a shit load of clearings on the north side, i was actually curious if it was the end of the summer roads and where the bigger rockier gullies are (skiers right of lowest the fence).

But since you know where I know, I'll just assume I know because I guess you know, I know where your talking about.

Which I still don't but.

Is there something in the water in this town? maybe it's all the mold.

It was immediately skiers left of the trees in Sakka, the area that runs down over the summer road switchback.

Seriously though you have to be stupid to be there in the rain the avie danger wouldve ramped up huge.

It is because of all the risk of avalanche danger in Hakuba that I bring my cubs to Niseko. I would worry myself to death thinking about my bear cubs playing around in those trees, pack or no pack.

FUCK YOU MAMA BEAR, YOUR NOT WELCOME HERE.

My word, that is some uncalled for hostility. I have only joined so as to bring some caution and wisdom to this forum, I never would have expected to be so rudely treated for doing so. I think I may have to report this to the administrator.

Learn how to spell you redneck

I cant believe the idea that Im skiing resort, so I dont have to wear a beacon/carry gear concept. Blows me away. Its like fucking a whore who is HIV positive. Stupid. I saw this a lot up North. Whether its SC or resort, use your equipment.

what blows me away is how everybody that isn't there, is there online with great insight and knowledge and knows exactly what's up.

How the Sakka slide, in an area I have personally have not ridden in a few years, somehow means were all kooks and that we can't make a logical choice. And that if we were there riding the north side in the rain we would all be dead.

How spending 17 years riding backcountry and inbounds mountain terrain and never being in an avalanche renders my logic and choices ignorant.

Not attacking anyone, but please... there is more to backcountry than your tool kit and how loud you can be with your keyboard.

Sorry you had to read this mamabear. If your get some time when you visit hakuba, I'd like to meet and take you on a tour of my favorite front-side line.

Would that be the silk wood I have heard so much about?

boing!

did daryl just boingk mamabear? what else have i been missing in hakuba?

LMFAO

Ah, hell, you guys need a little outside input anyway. Hakuba's way too inbread. lol
Ozzy ozzy ozzy oi oi oi

Anyway, I'm not in Hakuba and I don't know JACK and I'm tripple posting so while I'm at it I'll throw in my ignorant opinion about that avalanche too in case there's still someone left who I haven't personally pissed off.

I'd of thought surface layers would slide with the rain, but 100cm crown, on an area that should already be padded down a bit by riders and which I didn't think was that steep to begin with? That's big and scary.

Is it just the angle of the photo or is that a massive convex roll?

I would also like to say that a pack is a last resort peice of equipment and avoidence is the best defense against avi danger. That there were no PNs out there in the fast rising temps and the rain does suggest something, no? Mamabear, your insights are welcome on PN and we hope to hear from you on all matters of which you have no experience as you have learned to do on SnowJapan, where I guess there are few people left with any experience anyway.

PS. Since this is a thread about safety, get a note from Daryl's doctor before riding those lines.

Your buddy who you were riding with and filming triggered an avalanche two days ago in the slack country on Happo. http://vimeo.com/8943866. It happens. It would be usefull if you pro-actively shared this information with others in the community who you know to ride in this terrain. Of course, no obligation to do so, but stability beta is usually a very valuable input to other peoples decision making.

Sure boss,

The 'mix' as i know it named had a small release, from what I saw it was the just the recent snowfall, just over a foot deep. It quickly ran into dust. It looks much more dramatic that it was (check video). The snow was very light and in that particular area was sitting on a previously wind hammered convex roll that may have went through some dramatic weather changes like rain and freeze since the wind but I am not sure... just a guess (check www.deeplikepow.com for area picture).

This day was not so much the snow as it was the people I was riding with. Communication from me and 5 Japanese guys got in the way a few times (not to mention my radio being on different frqncy). I previously talked the fellows out of the first convex before this run and was surprised to watch my friend drop in to this one. The reason I was standing where I was 'filming', was because I could actually watch everyone entire run from here. I had no intention to ride this line especially not down the gut and over the mellow roll. Predictable it was, blower light snow it also was. In the end it was harmless. I imagine it looked much more spectacular from the Grat hut.

What was not predictable was watching my friends all ride to the creek leaving me on top by myself. Stoked I was not as I did know the snow was a touch dicy. Anyway i went to my intended area where nothing moved. This also came down to language as I missed this convo and would have likely objected to this move.

Not sure why you quoted my previous post, I am guessing it was some kind of zesty zing. in which I say 'touche'. Which is fine because I knew when I wrote it, that is was totally arrogant and ego driven and surprised it took this long for someone to bite back. I know I have now jinx my self. But the fact is it was much nicer then the "Fuck off, mind your own business, please stop blanketing everyone with your conclusions"... that I originally wanted to write. It is starting feel like someone is watching every move I make just waiting for a slip up.

Also I did lie as I have since recalled that I was once in one slide, inbounds on whistler on a previously bombed slope. So if there is some more amo for you and whoever else can't believe people ski trees with out packs.

My original and intended point was that many of us are capable of making our own choices and more experienced than you may give us credit for. I don't think I play the holy and perfect card like some choose too, arrogant/confident in my choices I sometimes am. Saying that we would be dead if we there (in the sakka slide), is a little over the top... since we were not there and the folks who were there are not dead. i always say if you need to exaggerate to make a point your point is not worth making.

I appreciate your concern but the way you choose to educate is a major turn off and really needs some social editing to work. Your delivery of the message drives people away more than it educates. Which is a shame because with all your knowledge and ability its a shame the community doesn't benefit from it as the whole rotting cock attitude really makes it difficult for some of us to read your gospel. If there was block button I would have used it long ago. I would rather benefit from your info but to what level do we have to be down graded too for some info.

Anyway, it is a shame it has gone this far as I believe beyond the ropes is no place for ego's, but I am sure when see each other we will greet each other with smiles as though nothing ever happened. I am going to go ride slack country, lift access at Cortina. See you there?

If you all just stayed in bounds like my cubs and myself this wouldn't be an issue. What do you think your mothers would think if they new you were going into the untamed wilds with only a backpack as defence? Think of your families before you do something silly. Skiing should be a fun activity, not a life threatening one.

This argument is actually a very interesting one since it really leads to the threshhold of risk you are willing to take. Not just whether you should have a pack, but whether you should wear a helmet, whether you should go solo, etc.. Everybody has a different level of risk/reward. My decisions though are based not simply on my "fear factor" but really on what the potential impact to others are. These levels of risk acceptance change over time (marriage & children have a huge impact on that one).

My belief is that if you can live with a given level of risk/reward and any negative outcome impacts only yourself, then you should be able to make your own choices, even if it leads to your slowly suffocating to death under tons of snow. The thing is though, I can't think of the choices discussed in this thread as having no impact on others.

Personally, here are some reasons why I (only my opinion here) would carry a pack + the usual gear anywhere it could remotely slide:
* Being the main bread earner in the family I have some responsibility towards my wife & 1.9 kids. If I get tagged I do not want to leave them in the lurch. So I will play on the safe side
* If something happens to my buddies, i want to have the proper gear to help them as quickly and efficiently as possible
* I would like to be able to be found before I suffocate (assuming I am not already dead from trauma)
* I do not want to put others at undue risk when they try to rescue me (refer to the avalanche in switzerland that killed rescuers this year as an example)
* I do not want my lack of precautions to lead to drastic actions such as closure of certain areas as authorities believe too many reckless people hit the area
etc...

Everybody is different. The fact that you have ridden for xx years and nothing bad has happened to you means nothing.
In the BC just as in other simple activities (such as driving,etc...) you are given many choices (including turning back, wearing a pack, etc...).
My experience is that complacency is one of the main reasons leading to tragedies.
You may be complacent, ego-driven etc your entire life and many nothing will happen to you. More powers to you if karma is on your side.
Personally I'd rather minimize the amount I leave to chance.

As for HAG, he is one of the very few people I know who selflessly puts out invaluable information out there and I thank him for that.
I do not expect everybody to get along together though especially in haks
Happy safe riding gents!

I would say that avi gear and helmets are a bit different in that avi gear is as much for rescuing others as it is about protecting yourself. I would also say that HAG does have a way of stating things that could rustle feathers. Whatever, this isn't snow japan.

Calm down. You are jumping things which are not there. Basically, I know you don’t like me or my business because using a block button on me would have blocked a trivial three or four posts in the last 2 months, mostly about my new skis – making your emotional outburst a demonstration of what you are feeling, rather than something effective. I provide nothing to block, and you are showing your hand. All I asked was that you could make snowpack info more widely available that you encountered instability. It happens, and it is useful info within the community. I see you out there quite often and you see a lot of the snowpack – it is useful info that you are gathering. I see you often enough to say hi, and give you rides back from the power station. I think you have crossed paths with my wife and I at least twice this season. Please get what ever animosity is in your head out of the way because it is misplaced.

As for my attitude towards people skiing without backpacks. I said it was poor form. I didn’t lecture and I didn’t jump back into this thread again to hammer the point or to engage in an argument. I added another post or two regarding skier triggered avalanches in areas where people have a bad habit of riding without a backpack. And it was referring to a far greater number of people than just you. You are in fact only a very small part of it. Eight foreigners skied directly off the top of the Gratz today, into the genuine steeps skiers right down towards Sky Line, traversing over an avalanche that a previous person had triggered that morning and all rode steep unsupported terrain as a bunch. Not one of them had a backpack – horrifying. That is very serious terrain. The small bad habits formed in the Cortina trees are being carried over to terrain with much higher consequences on days with obvious high avalanche hazard. But you though it was all about you.

For anyone’s info, we (the guiding company) cancelled a Happo Half day descent today due to the rapidly increased avalanche danger. We then went and inspected the very windy area for ourselves, found instability and returned back down the ridge via the ski resort.

Wow!

Anyways back on topic.
Did anything slide today? Warming up in the valley, 40cms or more in the alpine around friday with little wind,
Sunday more light snow with wind, 2 super cold nights. To me those are signs of start checking the snow. I know I dont dig enough pits but I have dug now 6 to 7 times. An old man that showed me my first pit once said.
"If you dont understand the snow you are always skiing, then you know very little about what you are skiing".

Taking an RAC or ARAC then doing none of the follow up means very little. That said that is the glory of Hakuba i guess. Anyone can be a BC skier cause, they dont need the skills required to get into the BC. Route finding, slope and wheather awareness gives way to the easy access runs. With more and more people heading up and out first thing after the storm it wont be long before a big one gets someone. Most likely it will be someone that did a RAC or Arac and really knows very little about what the snow pack is doing.

I will say that Daryl tends to ride lines that are steep but if you look carefully he doesnt really expose himself. There is a lot of wormy ridge turns and almost no convexx slashes.

Wow guys! Sounds like this forum is personal and not really about Avalanche safety. Attitude is what kills. "No one can tell me what to do", "I will ski where I want and when I want." etc... Sounds more like a soap opera. Sounds like a bunch guys fighting for territory in a ski town, like every other ski town I ve been to, everyones a local after a month or so I guess.
Why not practice avalanche basics, check weather reports, check avi reports, look at past history, DIG PITS,practice beacon searches, basic shit!A pack is always good to wear but if you dont know how to use the tools why even bother! You sound like a bunch grade ones fighting for their turn in the sandbox.
Yeti

Apparently I have annoyed people with my perceived blanket statement and attitude in this thread. I am sorry, I won’t do it again. I was wrong. I will improve in the future.

All I have to offer is that if a resort opens terrain and asks that you use the correct equipment, then is it too much to do as they ask? This is not asked of any one individual or group of individuals active on this forum. Many more people read here than post. In fact the people who post here could easily just email each other.

Finally, bad habits in ‘safe’ terrain are being carried over to terrain that has already shown instability this season. I think that is worth pointing out.

Sorry if I upset anyone. I won’t do it again.

I liked you better when you were an asshole on here, made my work day go by much faster. Apologies for interweb asshattery is not your style man.

Hay HAG, probably not the best thread but I think myself and KoM saw you hitting the pow on the backside of Tsugaike with your wife. I yelled out a "hello" but you were already hooting and hollering to the bottom. KoM was watching my approach so didn't notice you 10m away waiting. It wasn't personal . Anyway, I am happy to say that I had a "3-skin" day which is pretty hardcore by my lazy ass standards.

For those wanting "beta". The back side of Tsugaike had some great, light pow but surprisingly it didn't extend to Norikura side. Yes, there was some fresh and it was still pow snow but it was a light 15cm surface over a pretty icy and dodgy crust. The bottom (at the end of the afternoon) had terrible surface crust and was a bit of a chore. Skiing light footed was the name of the game today but I am stoked to say I had a pretty good BC day. Thanks KoM.

I saw someone ‘studiously not saying hello’ in green and blue, just below where we skied. I had no idea who it was though, just assumed he was Japanese and looking down-slope to who ever was ascending after him. Then a few turns into that short descent I heard someone yell out. We were mini-golfing that little north area for the afternoon - like you said, pretty good powder. You should have seen it the day before.

Yes that was me to my shame - I also assumed you were a Japanese pair who we would be following up the ridge (turns out I was loitering on your intended slope, apologies for that). It's probably true that I am a bit antisocial once I pull goggles over my eyes, but I like to think I would have at least said hello. I was rather interested to see if huff-puff NM would manage to interpret my pole-drawn arrows and initials at the skin track fork. After NM shouted at you I swivelled round for a look - you seemed to be enjoying the Atlaseseses - I am in the market for something new, ae you still in love? Forgive my poor manners, but how much do you weigh?

ps anyone else think that FT and Yeti may have had the same grammar teacher at school?

The sad part is that a generation of Nagano students are being taught FT Grammar. A whole new dialect of English may be the end result.

Don't apologise or feel rude. I think the only thing I actually noticed was that I couldn't give a quick hi to who ever it was because he was looking away from us down slope the whole time. I thought nothing of it. We were just messing about there anyway, hardly a serious day nor important bit of terrain. But if you want 1000m of great low angle powder in a day, you can ski that hit 10 times in a long day when the south side is done.

I was on my Sugar Daddies that day. The Atlases are incredibly good fun but sometime I like the feeling of skiing - and the Atlas is a bit numb in the sensation department. They also tend to hurt my lower legs a bit where as the short and lighter SD’s are barely even there, yet man they work so well. FT was right – I tour on the Atlas way more than I’d expect. Pretty much an every day Hakuba ski. The fiberglass top sheet is not very robust though. I have hacked it up on the edges already up near the tips.

Good to see you guys feeling the love in Hakuba. It's a nice place.

what do u mean by sad. that was many years ago i went back from vancouver to kyoto, got a teaching job, my teacher's training started, and i met my english brush up trainer, ft. since then, i have always had a profound faith in him as a liguist.